Thank you for this excellent review, Dr. Haltigan! It is very gratifying to finally have someone with a background in your fields taking an interest in Lobaczewski's work.
I believe I understand the reason for his caution about fundamentals religious movements. It would be interesting to know how he defines “fundamentals”. I also might note that my observation during the COVID crisis was that the more conservative or fundamentalist religious groups were the ones who resisted, not those groups with a more intellectual approach to their expression of faith.
Excellent point. I've really come around in my feelings about Christianity. It sure seems to me that for all its issues, it's provided the best framework to build a decent society around in modern history. Most people are lost without guidance, they're childlike and simply must have it. When people abandon religion, they don't become more rational and tolerant. We've seen what happens. Some lose their moorings with all that entails. Others choose to follow other, far worse paths, like wokeness, greed, or celebrity worship. It's no coincidence the decline of Christianity and decline of the West are happening at the same time.
I do not remember watching the show. It does raise an interesting point. We live in a time when people seem increasingly open to the idea that there is extraterrestrial life. Yet, less open to the idea of a creator and active evil . Can all the evil we experience on planet earth be explained by humanity’s imperfections, including psychopathology or is there more to the story?
The temptation is to use this approach to pathologise one's political opponents, as the reviewer has done here around gender politics and their own anti-woke agenda.
From a theological point of view there is a very thin line between psychopathology and evil. Where does one end and the other begin. What if there is a real evil that influence the affairs of human kind? How would that change the equation?
I'd think of it more as an overlap than a line. You can have evil without psychopathy of course. While many psychopaths revel in the suffering of others, especially when they cause it themselves, others are more indifferent in that area. They aren't bothered by others' suffering, but it's not what they particularly seek. Still, I don't think you can understand why there has always been so much evil, and why societies work as they do, without a good understanding of psychopathy.
I agree completely. I’m just suggesting that on a larger scale if there is an evil entity influencing human affairs we need more than an understanding of psychopathy. I see it as a Spiritual component that requires theological input.
No doubt. Understanding of psychopathy is crucial. And the response of most normals to psychopaths can explain an awful lot of bad stuff. But what we're experiencing might be too weird without something else going on. The devil could be causing this. So could aliens. Or, maybe we really are living in a simulation, we sure seem surrounded by mostly NPCs. Only half kidding, unfortunately. It's probably just that human beings are mostly fubar.
The unanswerable question. To explore, I think you need to expand your vision to all we see, not just humanity. The entire world, nature itself, should be considered. I'm a nature lover. It's beautiful, fulfilling, magical, sustaining, and so on. But horribly savage and merciless. Everything eats everything else. The killing just gets done, often in the most horrible and painful ways. Why? Why do things have to work this way? Beyond our pay grade, we just live here.
What happens in nature is not impacted by ethics. Human beings alone have the capacity to contemplate the morality of their actions. It seems to me that this makes your statement about, fubar, and my question why, much more interesting.
"Andrew Lobaczewski leaves considerable gaps in the relevant literature review supporting his own clinical observations. Moreover, quantitative estimates of the various psychopathology types he introduces and describes are left unsupported by any empirical research."
Do you have a sense of how to flesh this stuff out? It seems like you largely agree with his narrative, have adopted his terms, and so on. Are these shortcomings you see relevant outside The Science(tm)? Namely, what further research is needed to help inform solving the problem of psycopaths ruining everything for the rest of us?
Much of the fleshing out would need to be done within the context of developmental and personality psychopathology factor analytic research. Several lines of work would need to tie together the concepts. If you look at my posts, see the Internalizing and Cluster-B essay as a 'starter' example. Large datasets need to be leveraged, ideally with PCL-relevant data.
Thank you for this excellent review, Dr. Haltigan! It is very gratifying to finally have someone with a background in your fields taking an interest in Lobaczewski's work.
My pleasure. And by all means--call me J.D.
I believe I understand the reason for his caution about fundamentals religious movements. It would be interesting to know how he defines “fundamentals”. I also might note that my observation during the COVID crisis was that the more conservative or fundamentalist religious groups were the ones who resisted, not those groups with a more intellectual approach to their expression of faith.
Excellent point. I've really come around in my feelings about Christianity. It sure seems to me that for all its issues, it's provided the best framework to build a decent society around in modern history. Most people are lost without guidance, they're childlike and simply must have it. When people abandon religion, they don't become more rational and tolerant. We've seen what happens. Some lose their moorings with all that entails. Others choose to follow other, far worse paths, like wokeness, greed, or celebrity worship. It's no coincidence the decline of Christianity and decline of the West are happening at the same time.
Yes. I think your observation, at the very least, needs to be on the radar. Explored carefully I think people would be surprised at what they find.
I do not remember watching the show. It does raise an interesting point. We live in a time when people seem increasingly open to the idea that there is extraterrestrial life. Yet, less open to the idea of a creator and active evil . Can all the evil we experience on planet earth be explained by humanity’s imperfections, including psychopathology or is there more to the story?
Anyway I enjoyed the book review. Thank you.
The temptation is to use this approach to pathologise one's political opponents, as the reviewer has done here around gender politics and their own anti-woke agenda.
From a theological point of view there is a very thin line between psychopathology and evil. Where does one end and the other begin. What if there is a real evil that influence the affairs of human kind? How would that change the equation?
Yes. Are you familiar with the 3-season show MillenniuM from the 90s?
I'd think of it more as an overlap than a line. You can have evil without psychopathy of course. While many psychopaths revel in the suffering of others, especially when they cause it themselves, others are more indifferent in that area. They aren't bothered by others' suffering, but it's not what they particularly seek. Still, I don't think you can understand why there has always been so much evil, and why societies work as they do, without a good understanding of psychopathy.
I agree completely. I’m just suggesting that on a larger scale if there is an evil entity influencing human affairs we need more than an understanding of psychopathy. I see it as a Spiritual component that requires theological input.
No doubt. Understanding of psychopathy is crucial. And the response of most normals to psychopaths can explain an awful lot of bad stuff. But what we're experiencing might be too weird without something else going on. The devil could be causing this. So could aliens. Or, maybe we really are living in a simulation, we sure seem surrounded by mostly NPCs. Only half kidding, unfortunately. It's probably just that human beings are mostly fubar.
The question is why!
The unanswerable question. To explore, I think you need to expand your vision to all we see, not just humanity. The entire world, nature itself, should be considered. I'm a nature lover. It's beautiful, fulfilling, magical, sustaining, and so on. But horribly savage and merciless. Everything eats everything else. The killing just gets done, often in the most horrible and painful ways. Why? Why do things have to work this way? Beyond our pay grade, we just live here.
What happens in nature is not impacted by ethics. Human beings alone have the capacity to contemplate the morality of their actions. It seems to me that this makes your statement about, fubar, and my question why, much more interesting.
"Andrew Lobaczewski leaves considerable gaps in the relevant literature review supporting his own clinical observations. Moreover, quantitative estimates of the various psychopathology types he introduces and describes are left unsupported by any empirical research."
Do you have a sense of how to flesh this stuff out? It seems like you largely agree with his narrative, have adopted his terms, and so on. Are these shortcomings you see relevant outside The Science(tm)? Namely, what further research is needed to help inform solving the problem of psycopaths ruining everything for the rest of us?
I'd also like to hear his thoughts on the matter. In the meantime, I personally want to see more work like this: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/359496280_Psychopathy_and_crimes_against_humanity_A_conceptual_and_empirical_examination_of_human_rights_violators
and this: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12144-023-04463-x
They both came out after the new edition of PP, so I couldn't include them in the notes, but I wrote pieces on both of them on my Substack.
Much of the fleshing out would need to be done within the context of developmental and personality psychopathology factor analytic research. Several lines of work would need to tie together the concepts. If you look at my posts, see the Internalizing and Cluster-B essay as a 'starter' example. Large datasets need to be leveraged, ideally with PCL-relevant data.